Hangar 9 12volt battery question

[nwa1]

Hey all,

Can I use the Hangar 9 12 volt 7Ah battery to power my Trition EQ charger at the field so I can charge my 1300 mAh lipos and can I also use my Triton EQ plugged into the wall outlet to charge the Hangar 9 while at home? I already have the alligator clips and banana plugs. So I want to make sure I am not exceeding any limitations or doing anything wrong, Thanks for your input.

[WJCJR1]

So your Hangar9 battery is no more no less than a GelCell 12V 7000mAH battery. It can deliver 7AMPS @ 12V for one hour. In my estimation you'd be just fine for charging these smaller batteries with your Triton EQ hooked up to the Hangar9 Power Source.

About the charging of the Hangar9 12V 7AH battery now that is a different story. I would NOT hook up your Triton to it. This is a standard 12V battery and I don't believe there will be any safe settings available on the Triton to Charge it. Use of a car battery charger or Hangar9's charger purpose made for charging this battery, http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/search/HAN103.html If you use a car battery charger make CERTAIN it is capable of charging at a rate of .6A or 600mAH. A 12V motorcycle battery charger may be more applicable, as car battery chargers may not have this ability unless they have a trickle setting which is customarily around .2A, if I remember correctly. Too fast of charging and you are going to have a mess on your hands. Get the H9 charger linked above, cheap and purpose made.

Wayne

[nwa1]

Wayne,

Thanks for the quick response. I'll take your advice and get the Hangar 9 charger made for the 12v battery.

Ken

[WJCJR1]

You got it, let us know how the setup works out for you at the field.

Wayne

[nwa1]

Will do.

Ken

[jrb]

You didn't mention the S?

2S & less you get several charges.

More than 3S will use more amps than you's guess!

3S???

Depends upon the actual dynamics of your charger.

This where this gets real funny -- cheap a** charger often consume less amp (& thus AH) than more capable charges.

Why?

They do no more than 3S and are alomost like a zip charge(r).

Capable charger (for more than 3S) usually start to set up the voltage @ 3S; thus consume more amps.

Put you Whattmeter beteen the 12V and your charger -- this will tell you how many amps are consumed!

Note don't go below 50% of your 12V capacity -- if you don't want to buy a new one soon.

[nwa1]

Thanks for the info, JRB. It is a 3s 11.1v 1300mah lipo. I have four of them and I also have one 3s 11.1v 2100mah lipo.

[jrb]

I think you'll be surprised how few 3S fill ups you'll be able to do from a 7AH battery; have you bought it yet?

Remember a fully charged 3S = 12.6volts.

[tkallev]

The Triton EQ has a lead/acid charge setting (Pb) that will charge your 7AH field battery. The following from the charger's manual on the Tower website (http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpmm3155-manual.pdf):


1. Press BATT TYPE until the “Pb CHARGE” screen is found.
2. Two values can be adjusted in this screen. Press ENTER to cause the charge current value to fl ash. Then press INC
or DEC to change this value. For common 12V 7Ah lead-acid R/C fi eld batteries, a charge current of 0.5A to 1.0A
should safely, fully charge a battery in 7 to 14 hours.
3. Most hobby fi eld batteries have a nominal rated voltage of 12V. Make sure the voltage marked on the battery matches
the voltage setting on-screen. To change the voltage, press ENTER until the voltage fl ashes. Then press INC or DEC
to fi nd the proper voltage. Press ENTER to confi rm the setting.

4. To START CHARGE, press and hold ENTER for 2 seconds. “BATTERY CHECK, PLEASE WAIT…” will show briefl y, and TritonEQ will start charging if the battery is in suitable condition.



5. When finished charging the screen will show “END” and tones will sound for 10 seconds. The battery should now be ready for use. TritonEQ will display details about the charge data for your battery, including charge capacity, elapsed charge time, etc. A more complete set of data measured during discharge can be viewed in the DATA VIEW screens shown on page 14.




Notes about charging Pb batteries:

• Lead-acid batteries use the “constant current / constant voltage” method (cc/cv) as explained in the section for lithium batteries.
However, different voltage levels are used for evaluating the condition of Pb batteries.
• Lead-acid batteries do not need trickle charge, and therefore no such feature exists.
• Lead-acid batteries have a nominal voltage of 2.0V per cell. For most fi eld batteries, even though you cannot see any individual “cells”, there are 6 cells internally. At 2.0V per cell, this makes a total fi eld battery voltage of 12V.
• For lead-acid batteries rated at 12V or greater, the actual amount of current delivered to the battery might be limited due to the charger’s maximum rated output power. This is normal, due to various possible circumstances such as the condition of the battery, limitations of the input power source, charge connector/connection, etc.






TERIES


This all being said, I would agree with jrb that you will likely get only a few charges out of this battery, given losses in the charger, length of cords and all.


I use a 17 AH "SLA" (Sealed Lead Acid) for charging radio gear and small packs at the field. If I intend to charge a lot, I use one of my marine deep cycle winch batteries.


Remember the cardinal rule for lead acid batteries: :no::NEVER,:no:: NEVER:no:: leave them discharged for any length of time, this is a sure way to kill the battery. Charge it up full, use it, and then charge it up full again. It won't hurt to charge it up Sunday night and then charge again Friday night for the following weekend.


If you're really keen to use the 7AH gelcell, I would get two and use them in parallel.


tk

[WingingIt74]

I use one of these
http://salestores.com/samlexsec14a.html

Funny, I never thought to ask what everyone else uses as a power supply when charging their lipos. I use this little jewel for everything, from testing automotive electronics to charging my lipos.

Back to the original question, why not use your car battery?

[tkallev]

Back to the original question, why not use your car battery?

I have jumped numerous people who used their car battery and then it wouldn't turn their car over at the end of the day. And I used the winch battery to jump, not my car/van battery :thumbsup:

There are a few reasons I don't use the car battery:

Cigar lighter port only good for 10A and that's pushing it
No where to rest things under the hood (getting around #1)
My cables are short for less loss and I don't fancy burning up my car if a lipo goes off (remember the brand new Lexus a few years ago that went up with an unattended lipo fire?)
Our fields are out in the sticks so getting AAA out for a jump is problematic.

tk

[WingingIt74]

I guess I do have an advantage in being able to fly out of my back yard... For now.

[WJCJR1]

The Triton EQ has a lead/acid charge setting (Pb) that will charge your 7AH field battery.


Very Nice!

I will be very interested Ken to see just indeed how much battery you will end up using to charge a few 1300 mAH batteries. May very wel,l as jrb indicated, eat that thing up quick. For some reason I was thinking these were the compact 2S batteries.

I'll look for your report back.

ALSO I see from TK you are in luck with the Triton's charging abilities. :thumbsup:

Wayne

[jrb]

I use A123s in all my conversions/big planes and charge them via a MasTech power supply @ 20amps -- 7 minute recharges.

We have AC @ TVRC.

Though most metro feild don't; so, I use a 2000W Inverter to power the MasTech. Run my Explorer @ idle during use -- pulls 120amps off the car w/MasTech doing 50V & 20amps!

Have also put my Whattmeter between DC source and my various LiPo chargers (330d & TP 1010C w/210V ).

Did an interesting set of tests powering my Celectra 4 port (1S) mSR charger w/Whattmeter plugged in the DC sources. When supplied with about 6VDC it use 1.3amps max and about 460mah to fill my 4 cells.

If I get those volts from CC BEC run off a A123-7S pack it only take 154mah out of the pack!

388mah out of a A124-4S pack powering a 200W Inverter -- same pack powering my 330d uses 487mah -- better to use the Inverter and the AC adapter; who'd have thought that?

[WingingIt74]

Man I love the lines of that Toledo Special :thumbsup:

[jrb]

Good flyer too.

Relatively thin elliptical wing makes it slippery/fast -- some video here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13987795&postcount=114 .

[nwa1]

Wow guys! thanks so much for all the input. I haven't been out to the field yet this week because of the weather here in SE Michigan but when I do I will keep track of how many charges I get from the 7mah battey. I also have a marine deep cycle battery for the electric motor on my jon boat-that will work too, yes?

I am learning quite a bit and I do appreciate all your advice.

Ken

[WingingIt74]

That deep cycle may work the best to your advantage.

[jrb]

Here’s some data with my TP1010C w/210V.

Topped of a 3S-2100 pack for my Blade 400 3D for test in my garage.

You can see as supply voltage decreases the amps used increases to keep charging amps constant.

Roughly it takes 20% more amps & AH than what’s put in the pack.

So:
7 * .5 = 3.5
3.5 / 1.2 = 2.92AH

Or, less than 3 1000mah charges

YMMV

Use you trolling motor battery!

[WJCJR1]

Wow guys! thanks so much for all the input. I haven't been out to the field yet this week because of the weather here in SE Michigan but when I do I will keep track of how many charges I get from the 7mah battey. I also have a marine deep cycle battery for the electric motor on my jon boat-that will work too, yes?

I am learning quite a bit and I do appreciate all your advice.

Ken

Ken you are very welcome we are a friendly community of all different backgrounds and experience levels and all willing to offer a hand.

That Deep Cycle battery is a GREAT option. I know a lot heavier FOR SURE but first of all it will be WAY larger in capacity. Secondly if by some way you are able to drain this battery over a period of uses this battery is designed to be drawn down so not near as much worry over the need to ration yourself due to fear over discharging your Power Source EVEN over an entire weekend with a Trolling motor battery.

I saw mentioned giving folks' cars a jump after charging some batteries, I have often wondered that myself at the end of a long day and I am the last to leave the airfield. I have spent entire days charging battery after battery for 8 hours+ on my car battery and haven't had trouble yet. Of course now that I brag about it you watch, :clapping:, charge a handful of batteries and then click click click when I turn the key. No kidding that is my luck!

Wayne

[WJCJR1]

Very interesting data JRB!

Wayne

[nwa1]

Wayne, JRB, CLSSY56, Tkallev,

Thanks to all of you. You have given me some good things to do and think about. I can't wait to get out to the field again and use the little Hangar 9 battery and the marine deep cycle battery to run my Triton EQ to charge the 3S 1300mah lipos for my PZ P-51BL. It will be the first time charging batteries at the field. Up until now, I would just charge them at home and when I was done flying them, I was done for the day. But now my wife can get really excited (not...) because I'll be at the field for longer periods of time. She won't mind unless I ask her to come with me. (hee, hee).

[jrb]

Back in 99 I usta do my .40 conversion NiCds off the car; then got a 33AH wheel chair battery.

A few year later it was to a large Deep Cylce; actually hauled two for a while when flying serveral 16xNiXx and 6S-LiPo conversions.

Don't own one today -- love my A123s! (1/4 Cub -- 10S2P, Groovey 90 -- 10S, Toledo Special -- 8S, P-51 w/retracts -- 6S, FreeStyle -- 6S, T-33 -- 4S, PT-22/3KR -- 4S, Hot Liner -- 3S)

Have a 30AH Gell Cell I use for 3S EDF & 4S Habu LiPos.

BOL!

[WingingIt74]

Any way I can talk you into doing a post on A123s?

[jrb]

Just did a post; do you mean a thread?

What would you like it to contain?

[WingingIt74]

Ya, I've heard of them, but know nothing about them.

[jrb]

See new thread about A123s.

[rcdude07]

See new thread about A123s.

A linky always helps!

http://www.horizonrcflyers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1482

[nwa1]

Hey guys,

A few days ago I was able to charge four 3S 1300mah lipos on the hangar 9 12volt battery with no problem. And I think I can probably charge one more before it needs to be recharged.

Ken

[jrb]

Did you by chance note how many mah were put back inot the packs?

Or even better, how many mah were taken out of your 12v?

[nwa1]

Nope, but today I charged another 3s 1300mah on the Hangar 9 12v and I put in 863mah. I estimate between 900 and 1040 mah on each battery based on past flying times (7 mins give or take a minute; I normally try to land shortly after the timer sounds on my DX-6i). I will try keep better track of mah's put in. I don't do much WOT. Right now I'm charging another 3s 1300 so if this one charges completely then I'll be up to a total of six batteries charged on the H9 12v on one charge. That's better than I thought.

Ken

[jrb]

Keep us posted with your findings; it’d be good if you could a charge with your Whattmeter placed between the 12V and your charger atleats once. Then you'd know how many mah's come out of the 12V for the mah you put into the LiPo -- charger efficiency,; doubt it's anywhere near 100%.

For those who didn’t know the 12V 7Ah Sealed Battery by Hangar 9 is a “Gel Cell”: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN102 .

I’m wondering Ken, just how will you know when you can’t get any more out of the H9 battery?

IIRC two things kill deep cycles deep discharges and being left un-charged for an extended period of time; FYI: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm -- Battery life is directly related to how deep the battery is cycled each time. If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%. Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis. This does NOT mean you cannot go to 80% once in a while. It's just that when designing a system when you have some idea of the loads, you should figure on an average DOD of around 50% for the best storage vs cost factor. Also, there is an upper limit - a battery that is continually cycled 5% or less will usually not last as long as one cycled down 10%. This happens because at very shallow cycles, the Lead Dioxide tends to build up in clumps on the the positive plates rather in an even film. The graph above shows how lifespan is affected by depth of discharge. The chart is for a Concorde Lifeline battery, but all lead-acid batteries will be similar in the shape of the curve, although the number of cycles will vary.

[nwa1]

Hi JRB,

Thanks for the info. I charged the sixth lipo from the H9 battery and when I tried to charge another I got the message "low input voltage" on the Triton EQ. So I recharged the H9 battery then charged another lipo without incident. I do need to get decent volt/wattmeter.

Ken

[jrb]

the message "low input voltage" on the Triton EQ.

Ken




Any idea what voltage this is set to? Or how many AH were needed to fill the 12V?

Thes would let you know how deeep you discharged the 12V.

Routine deep discharges will take their toll.

[nwa1]

Thanks JRB,

No I didn't look at the charge info on the Triton before my son unplugged it. I need to keep better watch on things like this.