5th flight, not so good.

[CLSSY56]

Happend because I was stupid and tried to roll inverted too close to the ground. So, it looks like it will be in the hangar for a few months as I have other bills to take care of first.

Parts that didn't survive:
Spinner $4.99
Prop $4.99
Cowl $5.99
Motor $69.99 (Due Early August, 2009 * Backorder)
Motor Mount $2.99
Vertical Tail $13.99 (for both)

Damaged parts (I think they are repairable):
Fuselage (rubber band post, one side moves 1/4" up)
Firewall
Wing (the rubber bands cut into it pretty deep)

Total:
$102.94

Total of parts I don't have:
(Spinner and motor)
$74.98

[CLSSY56]

More carnage

[ATIS]

skip the stock motor and go to the EFlite Power 15.. its 100kv stronger!!

Sorry about the crash. She looks fixable

[CLSSY56]

I'd have to upgrade the ESC as well correct?

[CLSSY56]

I noticed my wings have less camber, could the spar be broke also?

[ATIS]

40 amp ESC if I remember. the key is its all metal, no plastic end caps to melt/break.

[CLSSY56]

I wish I had the cash
http://cgi.ebay.com/Parts-or-the-E-Flite-Apprentice-15e-15-RC-PNP-Airplane_W0QQitemZ390062823099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZL H_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad18e56bb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50#ht_3574wt_1165

[ATIS]

lots of parts...

[CLSSY56]

40 amp ESC if I remember. the key is its all metal, no plastic end caps to melt/break.

Which ESC would you suggest, there are 3 I believe that are 40amp?

[tkrahlin]

Happend because I was stupid and tried to roll inverted too close to the ground. So, it looks like it will be in the hangar for a few months as I have other bills to take care of first.

Dang! Sorry – it hurts to see that. Let us know what route you’re going to take. That ‘Lot of Parts’ is from the same place where I bought all of my parts.

I’m using the Power-25 motor and Castle Creations Phoenix 45-amp ESC in mine. It’s what I was running in the ‘Eflite Apprentice Bend-n-Stretch’ YouTube video.

[tkrahlin]

Parts that didn't survive:
Motor $69.99 (Due Early August, 2009 * Backorder)...Total of parts I don't have: (Spinner and motor) $74.98

Are you sure about the motor? Have you tested it? I’ve lawn-darted mine and had the motor(s) survive.

[WJCJR1]

Bummer man, probably carrying a bunch of speed/inertia when you rolled. Did you end up catching a wing edge or just plain flying into the ground inverted?

At my airfield a real great experinced flyer tried to roll his Tango too low to the ground, caught a wing tip on the Tarmac recovered but was distracted and got excited ended up destroying the plane about 4 feet from my truck. Maybe not even that far, what a THUD it was...

Unfortunately these incidents have to happen for us to learn.

Wayne

[CLSSY56]

Are you sure about the motor? Have you tested it? I’ve lawn-darted mine and had the motor(s) survive.

:( Ya it bent the shaft.

[CLSSY56]

Bummer man, probably carrying a bunch of speed/inertia when you rolled. Did you end up catching a wing edge or just plain flying into the ground inverted?

I made it all the way inverted, just couldn't pull out of the shallow dive.

[WJCJR1]

:( Ya it bent the shaft.

There is a replacement shaft EFLM7215 or did it in the process of wrecking the shaft wreck the housing?

Wayne

[CLSSY56]

I went to go take a closer look at it. There was a wire disconnected behind the firewall. It spun up and sounded fine, but there are a few cracks in the collar. Is this shot or should I throw some CA on it and keep flying with it. If so all I need is a spinner and I'm back in the air.

[tkrahlin]

...all I need is a spinner and I'm back in the air.

Hopefully, a little higher this time.

Sorry, that just popped out.

[CLSSY56]

Hopefully, a little higher this time.

Sorry, that just popped out.

:fryin pan: sure beat me when I'm down

[CLSSY56]

What type of white glue stuff did Horizon use to hold the electronics in?

[ATIS]

I would use a little high performance REGULAR CA... the worst taht can happen is the motor stops and you dead stick her in. Just go easy on her and check her after and before flights.

[tkrahlin]

What type of white glue stuff did Horizon use to hold the electronics in?

I put a shot or two of hot melt glue on them. Hold the part in place for a minute and the glue sets up pretty hard yet it’s easy to cut away later if needed.

For the firewall, etc., I’ve been using Sherwin Williams white silicone rubber “all purpose silicone sealant” Part #163-7453.

[ATIS]

I use double sided tape to hold the RX and ESC to the fuse. Easy on, easy off if I need to remove them.

[CLSSY56]

On the motor mount which side does the red washers go, between the mount and motor or between the mount and screws? These aren't the ones between the mount and firewall.

[ATIS]

probably between the screw and mount.. to help spread the stress of the screw against the plastic out over a larger area.

[CLSSY56]

I couldn't remember, I was too excited that the motor worked :)

[ATIS]

I know the feeling... saving yourself $70 is a big deal...plus you wont be down for a few months.

[CLSSY56]

I should have it back together this evening, minus the spinner. What should I do about the rubber band post hole that is elongated?

[tkrahlin]

On the motor mount which side does the red washers go, between the mount and motor or between the mount and screws? These aren't the ones between the mount and firewall.

They go on the starboard side between the Firewall and the Motor Mount.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/tkrahlin/RC_Plane/Red-Shims.jpg

[CLSSY56]

On the motor mount which side does the red washers go, between the mount and motor or between the mount and screws? These aren't the ones between the mount and firewall.

Thanks for the info and pic though, it may help someone out later :)

[ATIS]

You could use brass tube to make spacers to fill in the holes.. or position the rubber band hold downs back in place and fill the openings with epoxy (place tape on the opposite side to hold the epoxy in till it drys). Or Gorilla glue since it expands and will fill in the gap... just be ready to clean up the mess as it dries since it will expand into the direction of least effort.

[tkrahlin]

I should have it back together this evening, minus the spinner. What should I do about the rubber band post hole that is elongated?

Gorilla Glue - thin it with a little water and use a small stick or paint brush to smear it in as far as you can without doing anymore damage to the hole. It will expand and fill the voids, but go easy. A little goes a long way and you can always dress it up with more glue later.

If you're not sure about it holding, before you put the wings on, hook a rubber band to the starboard peg, stretch it UNDER the fuselage and up onto the port peg. This can double as a safety strap across your battery door. I lost a battery once at the bottom of a tight loop... learned what Fail Safe settings meant.

Good to hear things are working out for 'ya... it's hard to kill an Apprentice.

[CLSSY56]

You could use brass tube to make spacers to fill in the holes.. or position the rubber band hold downs back in place and fill the openings with epoxy (place tape on the opposite side to hold the epoxy in till it drys).

I guess i could CA a piece of balsa in the hole as well. Seems too big just to fill with epoxy.

[ATIS]

fail safe setting only work if you have voltage to the RX and you lose signal. They are intended to prevent fly off's. Most set them up as no throttle, slight turn (in the direction of your fields pattern), elevator slightly up (need it for the turn). This gives you a nice easy turn that drops altitude in hopes of getting her back (or at least recovering the electronics). If you lose the battery and all control surfaces "freeze" in the position they were in last.

[tkrahlin]

Thanks for the info and pic though, it may help someone out later

Right... Sorry, I'm supposed to be working ::tonguee:

WAIT! Today's Friday! What the heck am I doing here???!!

I think ATIS answered you anyway... The red washers go on the screws behind the motor-mount.

[ATIS]

I am with you... it was CALM this morning and would have been perfect to get the next "review" maiden completed so I could write it and get it posted...now its 10 mph and slowly getting worse and I still have 6 hours left of work!!

[tkrahlin]

fail safe setting only work if you have voltage to the RX and you lose signal. They are intended to prevent fly off's. Most set them up as no throttle, slight turn (in the direction of your fields pattern), elevator slightly up (need it for the turn). This gives you a nice easy turn that drops altitude in hopes of getting her back (or at least recovering the electronics). If you lose the battery and all control surfaces "freeze" in the position they were in last.

Then I was lucky because that’s exactly what she did. Big 2-minute turns while gradually losing attitude. The breeze carried her north about ¼ mile (20-minute walk). Had the wind been coming out of the west, she might have ended up on the highway.

[ATIS]

Most of us bind are planes with the throttle set to zero and then trim the plane to fly level at 1/2 stick. This works well as if you kill the motor and dont touch the controls she will slowly decend. I bet that the trim you added to keep the wings level against the motors tq caused it to slightly turn with the motor off (or you were either just off being wings level when the battery fell out) and thats were the turning came in. Either way good to hear she came down safe.

[tkrahlin]

Most of us bind are planes with the throttle set to zero and then trim the plane to fly level at 1/2 stick. This works well as if you kill the motor and dont touch the controls she will slowly decend. I bet that the trim you added to keep the wings level against the motors tq caused it to slightly turn with the motor off (or you were either just off being wings level when the battery fell out) and thats were the turning came in. Either way good to hear she came down safe.

I didn’t see the battery come out – I just suddenly had no control. After I walked the twenty minutes through the groundhog poo infested field, I found the plane sitting wheelbarrow style. I was surprised that it just looked like a hard landing with no damage. So I said to myself, ‘It’s a long walk back to the car - I should unplug the battery first.’

I searched the field for about 45-minutes… looking for the battery while trying not to step in a hole or poo, but never did find the battery. I’m guessing the flying gods must have been really pissed at me that day for something and the battery did a direct hit right down a freaking groundhog hole.

[ATIS]

I dont envy you... my field's rough enough without ground hogs!! I am surprised your CG wasnt so far off that the plane pointed itself nose high and stalled.

[tkrahlin]

I dont envy you... my field's rough enough without ground hogs!! I am surprised your CG wasnt so far off that the plane pointed itself nose high and stalled.


If it wasn’t so close to the highway, I’d be out there thinning the herd with my Bull Barrel 10-22.
>:D

[CLSSY56]

Any of you have a diagram of the motor? I assume the collar holds the shaft. If that's cracked (mine has multiple cracks, I assume I'll loose my prop. Even if it does turn over, I may have to get a new motor anyway.

[ATIS]

can you use wheel collars in place of the regular collar?? Oh and to answer your question, yes the collars hold the shaft to the motor so depending on wich one is damaged you could lose the shaft and the prop.

[CLSSY56]

Does this make my question clearer? I think this is what it looks like. Where is the other collar?

[ATIS]

is that collar a part of the motor or seperate? I bought mine used with a Power 25 so I am not familair with the stock motor.

If the collar comes off by itself I would replace it with a wheel collar.

[CLSSY56]

No, it's attached to the outer can.

[ATIS]

You might be able to use a different prop adaptor...either a set screw type and push it all the way back till it touches the collar and then lock it down...or due that with the compression type. That collar keeps the shaft from sliding out so you need it to keep the shaft on. My suggestions wont keep the shaft on, but will keep the collar from breaking more and alllowing the shaft to wobble. I go back to either using CA or epoxy on it.

[CLSSY56]

My adapter goes all the way back. I drew in the cracks in the pic below. I just want to make sure that it would be safe to run. I wonder if a copper pipe would slide over that collar?

[tkrahlin]

Check your PM

[ATIS]

I would use a little epoxy.

[CLSSY56]

I was thinking some JB weld and a ring of some sort.

[ATIS]

why? it looks like they are only around the set screw...just reenforce the area.

[CLSSY56]

Because, if it's built like I think it is, it will need some support. Besides, I may do this to a new stock motor if I go that route. It may be a good mod to do for others, prior to their maiden flight, to strengthen that area.

[ATIS]

ok... so you said the collar is apart of the motor housing and the set screw keeps the shaft from pulling out. There are bearings at both ends that support the shaft. I dont understand why you think it needs reenforcement?

[CLSSY56]

I believe that's the only point where the replaceable shaft is attached. If that area becomes weak and fails during flight, it could become more expensive (prop, spinner, cowling and maybe plane).

I think Horizon should of bucked up and put a Power 15 and a 40amp ESC, keeping with the quality of there next step, the T-34. It wouldn't have cost much more to start that way. Now someone has to buy a motor and ESC to even upgrade ::irked::

[ATIS]

If the collar is attached to the motor housing then appling epoxy to the side of the collor and out the motor housing will lock them together, run a littl eup over the edge toward the shaft (without actually touching it) and you will have a bandage around it that will now lock the collar to the housing. The Set screw cant break out the front because the epoxy would have to be broken as well in order to allow any of the plastic collar to move.

The Apprentice and the T-34 are in 2 very different classes. Balsa flys different then foam... alot different.

[CLSSY56]

Well at least I have a few ideas I can run with.

I know they are 2 different aircraft, but at least the T-34 has a Power 25 in it, instead of a misfit plastic motor.

[ATIS]

True, but the Apprentice doesnt need the 25's power to fly, the T-34 does as it weighs nearly 5lbs.

[CLSSY56]

I was just saying since they put a power 25 in the T-34, they they should of at least put a Power 15 in the Apprentice.

[ATIS]

agreed...

[CLSSY56]

It was hard to remember what things looked like when it was at home and I was at work. The motor has a collar on the back as seen in the pic. I think a little jb weld and it should be good. What are your thoughts?

[tkrahlin]

It was hard to remember what things looked like when it was at home and I was at work. The motor has a collar on the back as seen in the pic. I think a little jb weld and it should be good. What are your thoughts?

Very little... and it will have to be balanced/equal? The whole housing spins, right?

[ATIS]

yep, the entire housing spins. I figured add epoxy all the way around it.

[CLSSY56]

I got her back together. Only thing I need is some gorilla glue and a spinner. I've got an idea about wrapping some string tape around the seam to keep it together.

So, why the 2 red washers on the one side of the motor mount. Speaking of which, it would be nice if they would supply those long screws too along with the motor mount. I've got a head stripped out, but it's tight.

[ATIS]

the washers give you the down and right thrust line to counter the tq of the prop... without it the plane would roll hard left and under power would climb into a loop.

[WJCJR1]

I didn’t see the battery come out – I just suddenly had no control. After I walked the twenty minutes through the groundhog poo infested field, I found the plane sitting wheelbarrow style. I was surprised that it just looked like a hard landing with no damage. So I said to myself, ‘It’s a long walk back to the car - I should unplug the battery first.’

I searched the field for about 45-minutes… looking for the battery while trying not to step in a hole or poo, but never did find the battery. I’m guessing the flying gods must have been really pissed at me that day for something and the battery did a direct hit right down a freaking groundhog hole.
Can you imagine if you had seen the battery plummeting to Earth then you witnessed it spearing into a groundhog hole. That'd be funnier than heck. A hole in one that'd be a one in a billion.

Now imagine the Groundhog whose going to naw on that thing, POOF!

Wayne

[ATIS]

Can you imagine if you had seen the battery plummeting to Earth then you witnessed it spearing into a groundhog hole. That'd be funnier than heck. A hole in one that'd be a one in a billion.

Now imagine the Groundhog whose going to naw on that thing, POOF!

Wayne

You'll be able to ID him...he'll be hairless and smell like smoke!! :laughing:

[tkrahlin]

You'll be able to ID him...he'll be hairless and smell like smoke!! :laughing:

Or, if you go out there at night, his would be the only hole with the lights on.

[CLSSY56]

Well I did a motor test after I got most of it back together. The shaft is bent. So it looks like I'm up for a new motor now, prop adapter possibly and spinner.

[WJCJR1]

Just a reminder the shaft is replaceable.

I knid of figured the way the housing was cracked in the back there the shaft was going to be bent.

Wayne