E-FLITE PT-17 15e Build and Review

[ATIS]

E-FLITE PT-17 15e ARF BUILD AND REVIEW

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The EFlite P-17 comes very well packed in average sized box!

Whats in the Box:

(1) PT-17
(1) Bag of hardware

Whats not in the Box:

(1) EFlite Power 15 outrunner (I chose to use the EFlite Power 25)
(1) EFlite 40 Pro amp ESC (60 amp if you go with the Power 25 outrunner)
(4) JR servos
(1) 4 or 6 channel RX (6ch if you want differential aelirons)
(1) TX
(1) 20c 3s 3200 lipo (I used a 3s 2500)
(1) Set of Deans or EC3 connectors
(2) 6 inch servo extensions
(1) Y harness (if you chose not to use differential on aelirons)
(1) prop (APC 12x6E )
(2) 1/9 scale pilots

The Build:

I rarely start anywhere other then with the wings so I did not build in the order of the instructions

Wing:

The first step is install the aileron servos. You will need to add servo extensions to both servos. I highly recommend that you use tape (I used hinge tape (see photo)) to secure the extension to the servo lead. Attach the string to the extension wires and then SLOWLY pull the wire through the wing to the opening on the TOP of the wing. This may take a little wiggling but take your time. Repeat for the other wing half. I DID NOT attach the servo to the wing covers at this time. I center servos and such near the end. Its really the builders choice as long as you dont mount the servos.


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Rudder and elevator:

This is a little tricky. First you need to install the servos... with the pivet point closest to the tail!! This will ensure the pushrods reach the servo arm and the control horns.

Next, you need to measure the elevator (be sure to remove the control surface before measuring). Once measured, slide it in to the fuse and line it up. I then measured from the tips to the fuse to insure it was square with the fuse. Now trace the side of the fuse on the BOTTOM of the elevator. (I used a dry erase marker as it is easy to remove later). Now remove it and cut the covering off between the lines per the instructions. Perpare your hinges and slide the elevator control surface into the fuse with the hinges mounted to it. Then slide the elevator and center it based on your marks. Now glue the hinges in to it. Getting the hinges in takes some time and a little care but it can be done. Once the hinges are dry run some thin CA along the bottom of the fuse where it meets the elevator (horizontal stab). Attaching the rudder is farily straight forward. I recommend using a old credit card to gap the rudder where it goes over the vertical stab during the drying process to ensur you dont have rubbing (Mine rubs so unless I cut the hinges out and redo it I have to live with it).



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Landing Gear

Installing the landing gear is 4 bolts, use Loctite on them to ensure they dont work themselves loose. I had a gap on both sides. Nothing I did would remove the gap so I left it. Its only noticable if you look down the side of the fuse at the LG. At this time you will install the upper wing supports. Use Loctite here as well.



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Wings:

The upper wing is straight foward, install the wing rod and install the two outer wing halves. Secure them with the bolt and washer.

The lower wings require the wing rod to be installed first, then feed the servo wires into the lower fuse through the side hole while sliding the wings onto the rod and against the fuse. Now secure with the bolts and washers. I added the outer wing supports at this time using Loctite to keep them from backing out.

Electronics hook up:

I hook up all my electronics and bind my RX to the TX. Once the bind is complete the servos are now centered, remove the servo arms and place them at 90* from the servo. The rudder and elevator are the easiest but it took sometime to get them centered so take your time as the control horm clip will require alot of turning. Once you have the servo arms centered for the aelirons you can mount them to the covers and then secure the covers to the wings with the screws. A hand drill comes in handy for drilling the holes for the control surface horns. Remember to use a little thin CA to harden the wood after you drill so the screws have something solid to hold on to. On the aeliron holes do NOT drill all the way through!!

Motor and ESC install:

The Power 25 mounts directly against the firewall, the Power 15 will need the motor stand offs that are included. I mounted the ESC under the motor mount and wrapped the wires around the motor mount to keep them out of the way and to keep as much weight up front as possible. I also added 1 1/2 oz of lead under the motor to help with the CG.



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Cowl Installation:

This is the part that I would freak at...drilling holes into the colwing and plane...but now worries as its actually easy. I line up the cowling using paper that covered the mounting tabs. Drill holes through the paper into the wood. Then slide the colwing on lines the TE with the top of the fuse and the bottom so it looked correct and the motor shaft was centered. Taped in it place and then drilled through the holes in the paper into the cowling. Now install the screws. Now add your prop and you done!



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Preflight:

Verify that all control surfaces move in the correct direction and that all surfaces are flush. Double check your CG and go over the plane one last time.

Build Time:

Build time is 5 -7 hours depending on your experience.

REPORT CARD:

Good:
- Easy to follow instructions
- Great looking plane
- Larger battery area

Bad:
- Wrinkles in covering
- Poor fit of Landing gear to fuse
- Pilots not included
- No adjustable firewall (design changed)


FLIGHT REPORT:

Weather:

- 5-10 mph winds
- Setting sunny


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Maiden:

I rushed throught the build and raced into the maiden as I will be gone for a week and just couldnt let her sit that long. DCobra came out to take the photos for me.

ROG was easy and she tracked well for a tail dragger in 2 inch tall grass. She was off the deck in about 35 feet as I was easy on the throttle and wanted to keep the tail pinned to the gorund to prevent nose overs in the tail grass. She went nose high fast, and I had to apply alot of down elevator to level her. She would pop her nose up fast and hard if I let her and thankfully I had my neck strap on so my left was free to fight with the trim switch. I struggled for a few minutes trying to keep her level and not loose her. Once I ran out of full down elevator trim she flew level at 1/2 throttle. On hard banking turns she dropped her tail so I know I am tail heavy (as if the trim issue wasnt a big enough tail tell sign). I rolled her on low rates, well lets be honest, I started to roll her but it wasnt going to happen on low rates. I switched to high rates and she rolled but they are slow about 360* in 3 seconds. I didnt loop her as she was so tail heavy I was afraid she wouldnt get over the top. Landings, even tail heavy landings, are a thing of beauty. She comes in nice and slow and just sets down. Even I was impressed by the beuaty of my landing. She flys well at 1/2 throttle.

CG was set at 3 3/4" from LE.... it needs to be closer to 3 1/2".

Report Card:

ROG: Easy
Glide: Level with a gentle downward decent
Rolls: Slow, on high rates rolls are 360* in 3 seconds
Loops: NA
Speed: Scale speed, 25-50mph max on my setup
Landing: Easy, lands like a trainer
Beginner: No, would make a nice first balsa plane


Summary:

Beautiful aircraft, she simply looks amazing in the air and the color scheme maintains orientation with ease. She flys well but is touchy if tail heavy. Take your time and fine tune her and she will be a crowd pleaser.


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[ATIS]

I ended up adding 5 1/4oz of lead to the nose to get the CG to 3 1/2 inches from the LE of the top wing. She flew much better but still climbs hard under WOT and required 9 clicks down elevator even at 1/2 throttle. Tha tail no longer was dragging around behind but I am adding 3/4 of an oz of more lead. Scott (Flybye) flew it for me so I could shoot the video.


http://www.vimeo.com/6135412 (http://www.vimeo.com/6135412)

[WingingIt74]

Well done! One beautiful looking plane! I'll have to get one.

[ATIS]

Thanks, I have a few mods I am planning so I will be adding them to the mod forum.

[WJCJR1]

Real pretty plane there ATIS and good job with the last minute review.

1 1/2 ounces to the nose and still tail heavy huh? Can the battery be moved forward or orientation of the battery changed to move the weight forward?

Nice job and I look forward to seeing your flight video.

Wayne

[ATIS]

No video for a week. Didnt get one tonight as the sun was setting. The lipo was as far forward as I could get her. The issue with the WWI and WWII birds is that alot of them were short nosed so they tend to require some added weight up front for the CG. I will be removing the lead in the photo from under the motor and moving it to the inside of the cowling so I can get it an extra 1" forward. That should change the CG some and not require me to add a bunch more as it will be farther from the CG point.

[WJCJR1]

Good idea!

Wayne

[ATIS]

I now have 3oz of lead inside the cowling on the backside of the radial motor... barely shifted the CG forward. I am still tail heavy at 3 1/2" so I need to think some more on how to move it forward without adding more weight. I hate adding dead weight. I think a solution might be to use two 3s 1500 lipos as you can laying them on their sides all the way forward and that should place almost all their weight forward of the CG.

On a side note... 4 minute flight with a good 1 minute at WOT and I put back 684mah in my 2500 mah lipo...so 6 minute flights will be easy if you manage the throttle.

[mitchilito]

Pretty airplane, ATIS. Figure out a way to move the battery forward and have a nice vacation!

[dbcisco]

Thanks ATIS!
Too bad about the CG. Was this designed for Lipo? Some of my WWI planes balance perfect with Brushed motor and Nicads, but with BL and Lipo they need clay in the cowl.
How detailed is the dummy motor?
Are the ailerons on one or both wings and what do they have for linkage?

[rcers]

Let us know what CG you settle on. Looks like a great little plane - need to get one!

Mike

[ATIS]

Lipo cant go forward anymore...its touching the firewall.

DBC, the radial is detailed enough to look good. Just be careful with the "lines" as they are flexable rubber so you can cause the paint to crack moving them.

Rcers, it wount be till next week but I am working on getting her slightly nose heavey at 3 1/2".

[tkrahlin]

No video for a week. Didnt get one tonight as the sun was setting. The lipo was as far forward as I could get her. The issue with the WWI and WWII birds is that alot of them were short nosed so they tend to require some added weight up front for the CG. I will be removing the lead in the photo from under the motor and moving it to the inside of the cowling so I can get it an extra 1" forward. That should change the CG some and not require me to add a bunch more as it will be farther from the CG point.

When you add the weight to the cowling, would it be more effective glued to the top [inside] of the cowling?
In other words, the added weight would be above the center line [thrust line?] of the fuselage and would tend to “pull it down” more.


Does that seem right?

[ATIS]

not sure but I have come up with an idea to make more room up front in the cowling for adding weight... the inside of the radial motor pistons is open, so drop a fishing sinker in to them and add epoxy. Just be sure to add equal numbers to each side of the center line so the nose will drop straight down and no try and tuck left or right on you. This will allow for more room to add the standard 1/4oz lead squares over top of them with rubbing the motor. I have lead all the way around the inside of the radial (3 1/2oz) and it didnt make a huge difference in moving the CG forward. I think te key would be to stuff two 3s 1800 lipo's in on their side. They should fit and being shorter then the longer single higher mah pack will keep all their weight in front of the CG. I perfer to add mah if I need extra nose weight.

[WJCJR1]

I like the idea Bryan of added functional weight rather than dead weight.

Wayne

[ATIS]

video added!!

[Radioflyer]

Great review Bryan. As you know I love flying mine::cheerful::

Blessings,

Jay

[ATIS]

Jay,

Thanks for the kind words, happy to see you made it over here. She is a blast to fly. I just changed my aeliron servo arms out for some longer ones to squeeze the last 5mm of travel out of the aelirons to see if I can increase the roll rate a little. Hopefully I can get a flight in tonight as we have rain in the forecast the rest of the week and weekend. :(

Bryan

[ATIS]

Got another flight in today with Flybye. 6oz of lead in the nose and now she drops the nose in the turns and still climbs hard with power....even with a tail wind!!! I am going to mess with the thrust line.

[Radioflyer]

Bryan,
Do you have an incidence meter? I'd like to hear your numbers.
Mine were~
Bottom wing set to zero at the fuse. Bottom wing tips both at zero- No warp
Top wing had 1 3/4 degrees leading edge low all the way across- No warp
Stab with elevator in line 2 degrees leading edge low- that will make her climb
Stab with elevator trimmed for level flight zero degrees.
CG 3 3/8 from Top wing LE

Blessings,

Jay

[ATIS]

no but I might have to pick one up tomorrow and check mine. From the old eye ball test I had zero down thrust in built in...which with the fact that I have the non-adjustable firewall I wonder what else the factory missed that is going to have John and Dave fuming....

[Radioflyer]

I sure can't complain about anything on my Stearman.

[dbcisco]

Thanks for all the useful info. You are all wonderful.

[ATIS]

No real complaints, just need to sort her out. I do love flying her but for a beginner or ealry intermidiate pilot the first few flights might be a little scary.

[Radioflyer]

Very True.

[ATIS]

ok, A managed to get a quick flight in with the new thrust line... much better. 8-10 mph winds today (I hate this time of year) but I put her up and settled her in at 1/2 throttle... trimmed her out (3 clicks down elevator!!) and she flew level... go to WOT and shee climbs but its about 1 foot up for every 3 feet crossed so the climb is much less severe!!. Reducing the throttle from 1/2 throttle and the NOSE finally drops a little and she starts to descend. Before the plane would descend but the tail was always lower. (Note the changes in altitude are based only on throttle changes). Landing required me to carry a little extra speed or a little up elevator but I am hoping now I can remove a little lead from the nose and get back down to say 5oz instead of 6oz... inverted flight will tell me more but I didnt try it today because of the winds.

I have made a camera platform for her to carry a Sony Webbie under her belly so I hope to try that this weekend. Look for it in the mod section!!

[WJCJR1]

What did you use to change the thrust angle? Adjustable mount of just shims behind the mount?

Wayne

[ATIS]

I put a small thin washer behind the top motor mounts....but doing it each of the top corners it keeps teh right thrust the same but tilts the motor shaft down a little.

[tkrahlin]

...I am hoping now I can remove a little lead from the nose and get back down to say 5oz instead of 6oz...

Hey, I was just shopping for a ubec and thought about you and the PT-17.

A 10-amp ubec weighs in at about 11-grams. If you stick one up in the cowl, it wouldn’t exactly be wasted weight.

Just a thought.

[ATIS]

Tim, good point. The other option is to switch my 3s 2500 lipo out for two 3s 1500's (or 1800's) and I could remove more weight. I have another surprise I am getting ready to post and it will cure the weight issue...:)

[Radioflyer]

I mated two 1800's back to back with Velcro and it fit in the Stearman fine. The problem is that most of the batteries weight is under the CG anyway.
Since that doesn't do a whole lot on balancing I chose to stick with the lighter weight 2200 and that gives me 6 minutes easy, 7 if I really wanted to.

[brianfp_400]

You could put a power 32 in that puppy. The 32 motor is the same overall length as a power 15, and only 7mm larger in diameter than the 15/25. Weight wise it is 10g heavier than the power 25, so you could not only remove some of that dead nose weight you have, but go from a 550w motor to a 700w motor.

just an idea....and more $$ ....... smile

[ATIS]

more power then she needs... the 25 has more then she needs.