Deadstick!

[Jason D]

I had a thought the other day...shocking isn't it?

I have dealt with mostly glow and gasoline powered models throughout my time in the hobby. I don't own much in the way of electric aircraft, actually I only have a foamy that is currently broken, but it seems most of the members here are focused on electric type aircraft.

So my question is, how many of you have dealt with a deadstick type situation where you no longer have motor power of any type?

Jason

[ATIS]

I have, its not too bad since your CG doesnt change on an electric since the battery weighs the same full or empty. One key thing to remember is if the motor shuts down because of LVC you can pull down completely on the left stick, count to 5 (while flying) and then slowly raise the stick to 1/4 stick... it will give you a little power to help slow the decent.

But I have lost the motor completely... my T-28 motor died (smoked) on the upward side of a loop... I flipped her over nose down and rolled the wings so I could head back the direction I had just come and kept the nose down and pulled out at the bottom into a low level pass and just let her bleed speed and landed.

[WJCJR1]

Jason I'll show you a deadstick landing tomorrow at the Fly-In. The ESC is set very high on the T-28D so the LVC is easy to hit and I have hit it at least 10 times. My Apprentice follows the LVC cut-off and restart process as above. Unlike what ATIS describes above with my T-28D after resetting the LVC I get maybe 3 turns of the prop then it stops again, then two the nest cycle then literally nothing.

Call out your deadstick landing so the runway will be clear, hopefully. DO what you can to get lined-up while bleeding off the appropriate amount of energy(speed) prior to landing.

While setting up for landing also get a out or two lined up in case something doesn't work out. I have used the beans at our field once before, also I have used the mowed grass beside our runway as brakes when I was coming in deadstick and HOT with the T-28D and knew I wasn't going to slow within the 360' of tarmac we have.

With electric planes when you start thinking your battery is getting low via a timer, seat of the pants or just not remembering how long you've been up it is just the same as your gas plane either come down now or stay in a pattern that if suddenly you have no power you are in a good position to land immediately. So in essence I never plan to be doing aerobatics and low flights when I know my battery is indeed getting low because if I do accidentally hit the LVC and go dead I would be in a bad position.

Now I have no experience with, ATIS should have an answer since he does, I have heard a dead stick with an EDF is not a good experience especially if you are above hostile landing territory when you go dead. Picture being downwind from your runway on a super windy day and your plane runs out of gas and when it died you were going with the wind the wrong way, that's how I understand an EDF going black on you is like :thumbs down:

Wayne

[ATIS]

EDF's are not nearly as fun on a dead stick. the stopped fans act like air brakes so you have to get the nose down and really try to trade altitude for airspeed. You can restart them but they usually wont stay running above 1/2 throttle (especially a twin) and with EDF's the lack of forced air over the control surfaces means reduced control responses. It really becomes a declared landing and just getting her aimed at the field and landing... even if its with the wind with the only attempt being to reduce damage and not hitting anyone/anything.

Some prop planes wont give you a chance to reset the ESC... my EFlite AT-6 was one of them... when the LVC kicked in it dropped speed quickly and then the tip stall would kick in, a very nasty left wing drop followed closely with the nose jerking down and under. Watch the videos I have posted.... I have killed 3 of them in 7 flights... :(

[WJCJR1]

I have killed 3 of them in 7 flights... :(

Wooh that is NOT a good ratio, I am going to try that Texan on the simulator to see what you are talking about with this plane specifically.

Wayne

[WJCJR1]

10-07-09 18:30 Apprentice, 82 deg. broken clouds, Winds calm. 12 Min.

My first dead stick landing! It was exciting but I hope I don't have to do that again. It was my fault. I really wasn't planning on flying, I just happen to notice that the winds were calming down and conditions looked good. I have two batteries and both were not fully charged. I started charging the batt. with 10.7 volts on it, charged it for about 15 min. and brought it up to 11.6, ok that should do it. 10 min. into the flight and an altitude of about 200' I noticed the plane was slowing down and the throttle did not seem to have an effect! OMG, engine failure! Anyway I made it down safely. The batt. had 9.38 volts.


Good job staying calm, composed and bring her home!

Now that's what I talking about, 9.38 volts, that's using your battery!

I often think I must be feeling the same as a junky when I get to the end of my charged batteries pile. I go through all my batteries with the Watts meter to see what ones I can get just one more lap around the field on, kind of like a junky looking for just a smidget of a buzz when he/she is all out of their kick.

Good Job Ken,
Wayne

[ATIS]

learning to stay calm comes with experience. I used to freak out when things went wrong, now I just stay calm and keep flying. Look at the F-22 crash video I posted from last weekend...calm till the end...once down then I got mad..for a second.

[apprentice1]

Good job staying calm, composed and bring her home!

Now that's what I talking about, 9.38 volts, that's using your battery!

I often think I must be feeling the same as a junky when I get to the end of my charged batteries pile. I go through all my batteries with the Watts meter to see what ones I can get just one more lap around the field on, kind of like a junky looking for just a smidget of a buzz when he/she is all out of their kick.

Good Job Ken,
Wayne

There ya go, I was going tell Jason D I had my first dead landing the other day, I've only been flying about a year. With a gas motor it seems that you would know immediately if you lost the engine because of the silence of the motor. But with some electric motors you can't hear them. My Apprentice was up a few hundred feet when I noticed it wasn't maintaining altitude or speed like it should and then I put 2 an 2 together,,,OMG, NO ENGINE POWER!!

[WJCJR1]

With a gas motor it seems that you would know immediately if you lost the engine because of the silence of the motor. But with some electric motors you can't hear them.


Given several planes in the air or just one loud one especially Gas it is impossible to hear if you go dead. I have learned to limit my flights, I know Wayne limit himself, to preserve juice when flying around gas planes. Hearing the motor slowing or pulsing in a worse case scenario is as stated above impossible so a shorter flight is a good remedy.

It is harder to tell on windier days but on calm days you will note the sluggishness caused by a low battery.

Probably the best thing to do is either use your built in timer, if your transmitter has one, or get a timer. Fly and record battery life cycle on arobatic spirited flights, speed flights, mixed flights, windy flights, calm day flights, meandering flights etc.. Armed with this information you should be able to closely time your flights, that is if you stick to your preflight flight plan.

A $1.50 egg timer will work if you have nothing else. Watching your wrist watch while you should be watching your plane is BAD don't do that.

Wayne

[Radioflyer]

This is an intersting topic. I've flown gas for 20 yrs and dead sticks were comon. Now that I fly electric only I have hit LVC 3-4 times and all ended with no joy. Most of my glow dead stick I landed just fine. I think that it could be because I fly the electrics lower so I have less time to react. I sure hope I never have a dead stick with the Stearman... She slows quickly without power. I now ALWAYS fly with a cheap egg timer from the dollar store. Great insurance for the LVC but doesn't help when things break though. Good food for thought!

Blessings,

Jay

[WingingIt74]

It's always good to practice a deadstick before it actually happens. Where I fly, I can emergency land in the bean field or in the grass, if I have to.

[kirch]

I dead sticked my T28D a few weeks back because it went to LVC. First time ever for me (other than the simulated dead stick I did for my test to get cleared for my wings a few months back) . I was quite shocked because I was a couple of minutes shy of my 10 minute timer.

It was probably because it was such a windy day and I must have been flying WOT the whole time against the wind. I was fortunate that I was just banking into the wind and I noticed I was losing altitude faster than I expected and it was not responding to throttle. I just gave it a slightly steeper glide path to keep up my speed.

It does take a while to realize you have no juice. I shouted the most feeble "dead stick" ever. I could not really believe it. But that 2200 mAh pack took 2100 mAh of juice on recharge. Normally on 10 minute flights I casually fly one or two more circuits before putting it down. And I usually have lots of juice left. I have used that battery pack since and got over 10 minutes with power to spare. As somebody mentioned, it is usually the glow guys that call dead stick.

[ATIS]

The key to dead sticking an electric plane is to keep the nose down. Electrics tend to weigh less so they have less mass so they slow down faster when the power is cut (plus they are quiet so your usually behind the 8 ball by the time you realize your out of juice). Push the right stick forward a little to drop the nose a few degrees and turn in towards the field and line up with the run way. Take the left stick to zero, hold for 2 seconds and SLOWLY raise it up to 1/4 stick....this normally results in the prop spinning again. Then just keep the nose down a little and let her come in with a flare in the end.

[apprentice1]

Given several planes in the air or just one loud one especially Gas it is impossible to hear if you go dead. I have learned to limit my flights, I know Wayne limit himself, to preserve juice when flying around gas planes. Hearing the motor slowing or pulsing in a worse case scenario is as stated above impossible so a shorter flight is a good remedy.

It is harder to tell on windier days but on calm days you will note the sluggishness caused by a low battery.

Probably the best thing to do is either use your built in timer, if your transmitter has one, or get a timer. Fly and record battery life cycle on arobatic spirited flights, speed flights, mixed flights, windy flights, calm day flights, meandering flights etc.. Armed with this information you should be able to closely time your flights, that is if you stick to your preflight flight plan.

A $1.50 egg timer will work if you have nothing else. Watching your wrist watch while you should be watching your plane is BAD don't do that.

Wayne

Yes, I have a timer.

I didn't think about multable planes flying, I fly alone.

[pvogel]

Dead-sticked my Habu this past week -- there were several EDFs in the air and after 2 minutes of flight I didn't think the stuttering whine was mine until I came around a corner tried to throttle up and had nothing there...

Brought her onto the field successfully but pretty far up the field from me, so visibility on the landing was tough. She handled it fine and the only thing that gave away that it wasn't a perfect landing was the ejected canopy from a faster than ideal landing since I had to dive to gain airspeed to make the field.

Best guess -- I have two Hyperion 4S 3300 batteries for this plane, I must have put the same one in a second time instead of the fresh one -- people were talking to me about the plane when I was "changing" batteries and I must have gotten distracted -- there's really no other explanation for the very short flight...

Peter+